Subject: Martha’s input
I am appending Martha’s latest “Dear Mom” to the end of this; I invite you to scroll down and read it first if you have not already received it directly from Martha.
As for what she says about discipline – Bush is not apologizing for approving waterbording; I am not going to apologize for Herbert. Plus, from my previous memos in this series everyone knows accuracy is not the strong suit of the Herbert-haters!
I myself was raised largely by my family’s servants, as I have already indicated, so I have no criticism of that practice. I certainly was never forbidden by Herbert to have contact with my children, and most especially not Liz! Among other considerations, she is epileptic, and I alone handled her medical treatment – and decided what treatments to reject or use. Liz still laughs about the one doctor we tried – and whom I complained all the way home was totally meshugenah!
It did on occasion happen that I was given charge of children who were separated for a brief period from their mothers because of some problem. One was David Scholten – who for quite a while afterward would scream and run from me whenever he saw me! So most definitely this practice did not break family bonds! Another such case was Michael Newman – I won’t go into details here but Mt. Hopers all know his story; he and his family are definitely a Mt. Hope success story!
What I want to address is the charge of sexual malpractice.
I constantly wonder these days why it is that no one seems to make he connection between the Catholic teaching on love and the prevalence of sexual abuse on an epidemic scale within the celibate Catholic priesthood – and also the teaching on sin, which is against love for God and for others in God. I have already touched on the issue in connection with the sacrament Catholics mostly refer to as “confession” while to Orthodox it is “penance”. It could almost be seen as Herbert’s mantra that, as he said, “The only thing the average Catholic knows about love is how fast it can become a mortal sin.”
[The following Zenit post, however, shows progress on this score:
Permalink: http://www.zenit.org/article-30962?l=english
DUBLIN VISITOR TO BRING "NEW EYES" TO ABUSE CRISIS
Cardinal O'Malley Says Archdiocese Has Already Made Progress
DUBLIN, Ireland, NOV. 14, 2010 (Zenit.org).- The apostolic visitor to the Archdiocese of Dublin has acknowledged the work that has already been done in responding to the sexual abuse crisis there, and reports that his task is to "bring new eyes to the situation."]
I had an interesting college experience which I believe bears out Herbert’s observation – it has been on my mind of late, seemingly for no reason. I was brought up in a time and place which was then deep WASP (WhiteAngloSaxonProtestant – in case this is now ancient and forgotten history!) country. The first Catholics I knew were in high school in DC; my father was a West Point graduate and among his classmates also stationed in DC during the Truman administration were some Catholics. I always felt I was blessed in that in the 5th grade I was the most popular girl in my school – and it was such a tortuous experience (any boy advanced in the pecking order could claim me – I wasn’t even a free agent!!!) I made sure never to be anybody’s “girlfriend” after that - although I did get along well with everybody and had an active social life. So during the summer I became friends with a very interesting and intellectual “army brat” who was part of our crowd, and he invited me to his university for a big weekend in the fall, and then we dated some back in DC over winter break. After a dance he was driving me home, and he said he was going to turn into a parking overlook. It wasn’t my usual, but I didn’t object – maybe I figured we knew each other well enough that we could kiss – which we hadn’t already, I was basically just not into kissing and I guess he was too shy. We kissed, he fondled me some, while it had not theretofore been my wont, it seemed ok to me. So I was frankly stunned that he, immediately after, not only “dropped” me like a hot cake, but turned virulently against me, and to such a degree that in years later, after Mama’s repose, I approached him for some reason (our mothers were very good friends, having co-founded the Army-Navy Cotillion that I see is still a high point of the winter social scene in DC) and he cut me off. I have to say it: he acted like I was a hooker trying to proposition him!
Years after that, after Herbert’s repose, I matriculated in a doctoral program in comparative literature because I wanted to know what academia had been doing all those 16 years my life had been hidden with Christ in God with Herbert. And of course I read James Joyce (I was so focused on philosophy/theology in college and grad school, my literary background was quite meager.) Herbert used to refer to “Bloom”, and I caught Herbert’s meaning, but I never knew who Bloom was! But it wasn’t Ulysses that rocked me, but rather Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man: the “artist” was my DC boyfriend to a T!
Everybody can do their own research if you don’t get the literary references. I’m going to leave it at that, because it’s like our political scene: the gal “exhausted” from supporting Obama and complaining that with this recession she fears having to go back to eating hot dogs and beans again!!! And the guy warning Obama against denying a tax break to him and his buddies in the $250,000 per annum income bracket!!! I can’t think of anything at all to say to anyone who thinks that way.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Martha’s “Dear Mom” e-mail response:
Thanks you John, for bringing the truth of Mount Hope to Mom's attention. Truly we have all tried but she seems not to have heard and she is still not listening, but she heard.
Mom, It is refreshing to have the opportunity for you to hear me. The life we lived at Mount Hope was all Herbert's design for his own ulterior motives. You will say it was to make us all saints.
I don't know what Herbert got out of it. I do know my experiences.
Children were removed from their parents many times. You know that Herbert assigned Elisa Suarez to care for Liz as a baby and she was not even allowed to let Liz see you. I, too, cared for Liz as a baby, but she was removed from your care for the most part. And all of your children were in groups for childcare as were all children at Mount Hope until about the mid 1970's. I have always said my parents did not play the role of my parents at Mount Hope. My father was Herbert Schwartz and my mother figure was Sis Haunert.
****That was a positive in your book but in mine it runs counter to the family God gave each of us. Because you and Papa had us we were the family God gave you. Herbert played on your feelings of inadequacy as a mother and certainly worked hard to remove Papa as our father******
Children, babies and all, were slapped and beaten for not smiling at Herbert when they were brought into his room to say Good Morning. Babies were locked in the bathroom for minor misbehaviors. We use to say our homes were going to have the most elegant bathroom, designed to offset the punishment. Only Herbert could give candy to children and he did that on a whim...whoever was his friend or his best friend got and others did not....Many never did.
In all of our life at Mount Hope we were cut off, totally, from all relatives and friends who did not live there. You know that our grandmother sent wrapped Christmas gifts in a box to all of us, her seven grandchildren, every year. She had a list of our sizes every year and shopped for us. They may have been given to us as having
come from Herbert but I have no recollection of gifts from Grandma.
As we only received one Christmas gift each year, they may have been assigned to others. Who knows. We could not invite over friends from school unless they wanted to join our life.
Punishments were truly Medieval. I was slapped full across my face with Herbert's fat fist for scratching his piano with the carpetsweeper. I was more than once whipped until I bled with a belt (and I was relatively well behaved. I know many for whom this punishment was often.)
One young man about 7 - 10 year old did something. For his transgression Herbert tied him in a chair and had every adult come through and slap him. Herbert was watching and if it was not hard enough you commanded to do it again. I was a teenager but I was required to participate.
Required ???? How come we did not refuse to do what we were told????
Punishment was severe and you were ostracized. Herbert held all the power.
How come our parents did not object???? People who came to Mount Hope were seeking. Something was not right or missing in their lives and they thought Herbert was the answer and they trusted his teachings. All were vulnerable in some way and not confident in their own instincts.
As a teenager of 13 I was, according to Herbert, "depressed". His solution was to take me on his lap in the dark of night in the dark of his room and fondle me. This was to "recharge me". It went further as years went by.....He always started with a Hail Mary...I do not think his saying a prayer made this a holy activity. Today and then this is/was sex abuse. According to you, Mom, this was a special gift given to me by Herbert......Not something a saint would do...I was told by Herbert to never share those experiences with anyone, particularly one of my good friends.
And so Hebert's trump card in that circumstance was to make you feel you were the "only one" to receive this special gift.
As a young woman of about 30 or so, I had left Mount Hope, married had a few children and had a visit from a close friend my age at Mount Hope.
She had left Mount Hope recently with her husband and children. We went for a long walk and in conversation realized we had each experienced this "special gift" from Herbert. Then we each knew we were not alone. She returned to confront the person in charge of the community following Herbert's death in 1980. With this information made somewhat public, the fabric of the community disintegrated and people spread far and wide.
We all became Third Order Dominicans. I was made a novice when I was 17 and fully professed when I was 18. We took a vow of Obedience but that vow was not to the Dominican Provincial but to Herbert. He used the Third Order of St Dominic to his own end. We did have two Dominican priests in the community but they were Herbert's children also.
In the early 1960's when they first met Herbert their Provincial forbade them from coming to our community so they would meet Herbert in the Town of Otisville.
Mom, I could go on and on and I have shared all this with you in writing over the years, but you are maybe hearing but certainly not listening.
It is amazingly convoluted to read your writings. You follow no line of thought, go off an many tangents and draw parallels from very strange places. But is is interesting to know what you are thinking.
Ever time you want to complain about the sex abuse among Catholic priests I want to scream....can't you see that is exactly what Herbert did...and you want to call it a "gift".....Sick...just sick
Many kudos to John for putting this info in a place where Mom...and anyone else ...can read it. I did promise to add to John's blog and I regret that I have found blogs in general difficult to navigate and so have not taken the time to follow John and support his endeavor.
Mom you have two great granddaughters you will never see. If you read what I have tried to say over the years you will understand why.
It saddens me that my children feel this way, but I very much understand why they do.
Martha
I am appending Martha’s latest “Dear Mom” to the end of this; I invite you to scroll down and read it first if you have not already received it directly from Martha.
As for what she says about discipline – Bush is not apologizing for approving waterbording; I am not going to apologize for Herbert. Plus, from my previous memos in this series everyone knows accuracy is not the strong suit of the Herbert-haters!
I myself was raised largely by my family’s servants, as I have already indicated, so I have no criticism of that practice. I certainly was never forbidden by Herbert to have contact with my children, and most especially not Liz! Among other considerations, she is epileptic, and I alone handled her medical treatment – and decided what treatments to reject or use. Liz still laughs about the one doctor we tried – and whom I complained all the way home was totally meshugenah!
It did on occasion happen that I was given charge of children who were separated for a brief period from their mothers because of some problem. One was David Scholten – who for quite a while afterward would scream and run from me whenever he saw me! So most definitely this practice did not break family bonds! Another such case was Michael Newman – I won’t go into details here but Mt. Hopers all know his story; he and his family are definitely a Mt. Hope success story!
What I want to address is the charge of sexual malpractice.
I constantly wonder these days why it is that no one seems to make he connection between the Catholic teaching on love and the prevalence of sexual abuse on an epidemic scale within the celibate Catholic priesthood – and also the teaching on sin, which is against love for God and for others in God. I have already touched on the issue in connection with the sacrament Catholics mostly refer to as “confession” while to Orthodox it is “penance”. It could almost be seen as Herbert’s mantra that, as he said, “The only thing the average Catholic knows about love is how fast it can become a mortal sin.”
[The following Zenit post, however, shows progress on this score:
Permalink: http://www.zenit.org/article-30962?l=english
DUBLIN VISITOR TO BRING "NEW EYES" TO ABUSE CRISIS
Cardinal O'Malley Says Archdiocese Has Already Made Progress
DUBLIN, Ireland, NOV. 14, 2010 (Zenit.org).- The apostolic visitor to the Archdiocese of Dublin has acknowledged the work that has already been done in responding to the sexual abuse crisis there, and reports that his task is to "bring new eyes to the situation."]
I had an interesting college experience which I believe bears out Herbert’s observation – it has been on my mind of late, seemingly for no reason. I was brought up in a time and place which was then deep WASP (WhiteAngloSaxonProtestant – in case this is now ancient and forgotten history!) country. The first Catholics I knew were in high school in DC; my father was a West Point graduate and among his classmates also stationed in DC during the Truman administration were some Catholics. I always felt I was blessed in that in the 5th grade I was the most popular girl in my school – and it was such a tortuous experience (any boy advanced in the pecking order could claim me – I wasn’t even a free agent!!!) I made sure never to be anybody’s “girlfriend” after that - although I did get along well with everybody and had an active social life. So during the summer I became friends with a very interesting and intellectual “army brat” who was part of our crowd, and he invited me to his university for a big weekend in the fall, and then we dated some back in DC over winter break. After a dance he was driving me home, and he said he was going to turn into a parking overlook. It wasn’t my usual, but I didn’t object – maybe I figured we knew each other well enough that we could kiss – which we hadn’t already, I was basically just not into kissing and I guess he was too shy. We kissed, he fondled me some, while it had not theretofore been my wont, it seemed ok to me. So I was frankly stunned that he, immediately after, not only “dropped” me like a hot cake, but turned virulently against me, and to such a degree that in years later, after Mama’s repose, I approached him for some reason (our mothers were very good friends, having co-founded the Army-Navy Cotillion that I see is still a high point of the winter social scene in DC) and he cut me off. I have to say it: he acted like I was a hooker trying to proposition him!
Years after that, after Herbert’s repose, I matriculated in a doctoral program in comparative literature because I wanted to know what academia had been doing all those 16 years my life had been hidden with Christ in God with Herbert. And of course I read James Joyce (I was so focused on philosophy/theology in college and grad school, my literary background was quite meager.) Herbert used to refer to “Bloom”, and I caught Herbert’s meaning, but I never knew who Bloom was! But it wasn’t Ulysses that rocked me, but rather Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man: the “artist” was my DC boyfriend to a T!
Everybody can do their own research if you don’t get the literary references. I’m going to leave it at that, because it’s like our political scene: the gal “exhausted” from supporting Obama and complaining that with this recession she fears having to go back to eating hot dogs and beans again!!! And the guy warning Obama against denying a tax break to him and his buddies in the $250,000 per annum income bracket!!! I can’t think of anything at all to say to anyone who thinks that way.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Martha’s “Dear Mom” e-mail response:
Thanks you John, for bringing the truth of Mount Hope to Mom's attention. Truly we have all tried but she seems not to have heard and she is still not listening, but she heard.
Mom, It is refreshing to have the opportunity for you to hear me. The life we lived at Mount Hope was all Herbert's design for his own ulterior motives. You will say it was to make us all saints.
I don't know what Herbert got out of it. I do know my experiences.
Children were removed from their parents many times. You know that Herbert assigned Elisa Suarez to care for Liz as a baby and she was not even allowed to let Liz see you. I, too, cared for Liz as a baby, but she was removed from your care for the most part. And all of your children were in groups for childcare as were all children at Mount Hope until about the mid 1970's. I have always said my parents did not play the role of my parents at Mount Hope. My father was Herbert Schwartz and my mother figure was Sis Haunert.
****That was a positive in your book but in mine it runs counter to the family God gave each of us. Because you and Papa had us we were the family God gave you. Herbert played on your feelings of inadequacy as a mother and certainly worked hard to remove Papa as our father******
Children, babies and all, were slapped and beaten for not smiling at Herbert when they were brought into his room to say Good Morning. Babies were locked in the bathroom for minor misbehaviors. We use to say our homes were going to have the most elegant bathroom, designed to offset the punishment. Only Herbert could give candy to children and he did that on a whim...whoever was his friend or his best friend got and others did not....Many never did.
In all of our life at Mount Hope we were cut off, totally, from all relatives and friends who did not live there. You know that our grandmother sent wrapped Christmas gifts in a box to all of us, her seven grandchildren, every year. She had a list of our sizes every year and shopped for us. They may have been given to us as having
come from Herbert but I have no recollection of gifts from Grandma.
As we only received one Christmas gift each year, they may have been assigned to others. Who knows. We could not invite over friends from school unless they wanted to join our life.
Punishments were truly Medieval. I was slapped full across my face with Herbert's fat fist for scratching his piano with the carpetsweeper. I was more than once whipped until I bled with a belt (and I was relatively well behaved. I know many for whom this punishment was often.)
One young man about 7 - 10 year old did something. For his transgression Herbert tied him in a chair and had every adult come through and slap him. Herbert was watching and if it was not hard enough you commanded to do it again. I was a teenager but I was required to participate.
Required ???? How come we did not refuse to do what we were told????
Punishment was severe and you were ostracized. Herbert held all the power.
How come our parents did not object???? People who came to Mount Hope were seeking. Something was not right or missing in their lives and they thought Herbert was the answer and they trusted his teachings. All were vulnerable in some way and not confident in their own instincts.
As a teenager of 13 I was, according to Herbert, "depressed". His solution was to take me on his lap in the dark of night in the dark of his room and fondle me. This was to "recharge me". It went further as years went by.....He always started with a Hail Mary...I do not think his saying a prayer made this a holy activity. Today and then this is/was sex abuse. According to you, Mom, this was a special gift given to me by Herbert......Not something a saint would do...I was told by Herbert to never share those experiences with anyone, particularly one of my good friends.
And so Hebert's trump card in that circumstance was to make you feel you were the "only one" to receive this special gift.
As a young woman of about 30 or so, I had left Mount Hope, married had a few children and had a visit from a close friend my age at Mount Hope.
She had left Mount Hope recently with her husband and children. We went for a long walk and in conversation realized we had each experienced this "special gift" from Herbert. Then we each knew we were not alone. She returned to confront the person in charge of the community following Herbert's death in 1980. With this information made somewhat public, the fabric of the community disintegrated and people spread far and wide.
We all became Third Order Dominicans. I was made a novice when I was 17 and fully professed when I was 18. We took a vow of Obedience but that vow was not to the Dominican Provincial but to Herbert. He used the Third Order of St Dominic to his own end. We did have two Dominican priests in the community but they were Herbert's children also.
In the early 1960's when they first met Herbert their Provincial forbade them from coming to our community so they would meet Herbert in the Town of Otisville.
Mom, I could go on and on and I have shared all this with you in writing over the years, but you are maybe hearing but certainly not listening.
It is amazingly convoluted to read your writings. You follow no line of thought, go off an many tangents and draw parallels from very strange places. But is is interesting to know what you are thinking.
Ever time you want to complain about the sex abuse among Catholic priests I want to scream....can't you see that is exactly what Herbert did...and you want to call it a "gift".....Sick...just sick
Many kudos to John for putting this info in a place where Mom...and anyone else ...can read it. I did promise to add to John's blog and I regret that I have found blogs in general difficult to navigate and so have not taken the time to follow John and support his endeavor.
Mom you have two great granddaughters you will never see. If you read what I have tried to say over the years you will understand why.
It saddens me that my children feel this way, but I very much understand why they do.
Martha
