Subject: breaking down any myths that Herbert Thomas Schwartz was a Saint
I’m not going to be deterred by “this hurts me more [as a mother] than it does you [as my son]”; if I take the Metropolitan – even, on occasion the Pope - to task when I believe this is needful, I can hardly sit by and take it from my own family.
I knew joining FaceBook would prove a mixed blessing! But blessing it has been, because it cut through the evasions that have stood between my younger son and myself – for as long as we have communicated at an adult level.
My response is going to be very brief and to the point. I refer my readers to John’s page: http://blessings-shared-blessings-multiplied.blogspot.com/
Please scroll down to the following, my own comments on this will be in brackets:
Sunday, April 11, 2010 [my birthday]
may the hidden become unhidden
and may my blogging on this topic have the primary purpose of
1) out of love – for Jesus, for those hurt by what took place at Mt. Hope,
2) NOT to win one side of an argument or debate
3) breaking down any myths that Herbert Thomas Schwartz was a Saint
[John, you have already decided, before you present your arguments, which “one side of an argument or debate” which is going to “win”!!! That Herbert Schwartz was a saint is merely a “myth” which needs to be “broken down” that “the hidden become unhidden”.
So I will assist you in this uh – egregiously mis-stated endeavor. I will be quoting from your site]:
A news article from the New York Times – September of 1964 – foreshadows some of what will follow
The headline reads
Communal 'Family' of 27 Faces Ouster
Followed by a article about
"A Roman Catholic lay communal group is facing eviction from it's 20-room house because of the village’s one-family zoning laws.”
the article continues
"The group of 27 persons from four families is led by Dr. Herbert T. Schwartz., who describes his society as "an experiment in religious living." Dr. Schwartz a doctor of philosophy, controls the group's pooled finances, directs his followers’ lives and assumes the responsibility of controlling the families 12 children.“
[These statements appeared in an article in the New York Times which a few years ago had to fire a reporter for not even being physically on site for many of the reports he filed. And it came out at the time that such practices were not, uh …… exactly rare.]
While my family was not one of those four – it was one of the first to join the others when property was found and purchased in Mt. Hope, NY. (about 75 miles north of New York City)
Obviously I was not reading the New York Times in September of 1964 – and being only three – it’s not likely the line about “and assumes the responsibility of controlling the families 12 children” would have jumped out at me. Reading the NYT column today I can almost hear the theme from the movie “Jaws”.
The physical abuse of children that had already taken place in Ridgewood [I don’t see any instances of this cited] was to become more common and brutal at Mt. Hope. All under the guise of “this is what God wants”.
To say that Herbert Thomas Schwartz had a sadistic side to him would to be kind to him (and cruel to those he abused). He had enough intelligence to be manipulative to such an extent that he was able to control not just “the families 12 children” but many other families and people as well – along with several Roman Catholic Priests and Nuns. The control was to gain a strong foothold through an unhealthy obedience. [Factual substantiation, please???]
Occasionally I will come across a blog posted by a fellow survivor of Mt. Hope – and their comments may include “I was at Mt. Hope for 7 years” or “I was at Mt. Hope 12 years”. And I think ‘how did I flub (I can think of a stronger word than “flub” but there is little need to include that word in this blog) up badly enough to have been there for 22?”.
When one is in elementary school and they speak of “brainwashing” in a communist country or elsewhere you tend to think this that almost like classes of some sort they can make you attend. The reality is “brainwashing” is 24/7/365. At Mt. Hope it was the continual misrepresentation of evil as good. Along with forever being instructed to “be obedient” and “offer this up to God”. [Again, what that is verifiably evil was represented as good? Obedience to one’s parents is one of the 10 commandments – and St. Paul notes its importance, being the first commandment that comes with a promise: “Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. ‘Honour thy father and mother’; which is the first commandment with a promise: ‘that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.’” (Ephesians 6:1-3)]
[Back to my son John:] We were told as children “You are not a victim. You can not be a victim – the only victim is Jesus.” [Jesus asks: "Who among you would say to your servant who has just come in from plowing or tending sheep in the field, 'Come here immediately and take your place at table'? Would he not rather say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat. Put on your apron and wait on me while I eat and drink. You may eat and drink when I am finished'? Is he grateful to that servant because he did what was commanded? So should it be with you. When you have done all you have been commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants; we have but done what we were obliged to do.'" Luke 17:7-10),
The US Conference of Catholic Bishops comments: “These sayings of Jesus, peculiar to Luke, which continue his response to the apostles' request to increase their faith (Luke 17:5-6), remind them that Christian disciples can make no claim on God's graciousness; in fulfilling the exacting demands of discipleship, they are only doing their duty.” http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke17.htm
Herbert was, in fact responding to the request of the Mt. Hope parents who requested Herbert to help us increase our faith – not an easy task in the faithless society in which we lived (and still live) and which reclaimed so many of our children, John being an example. It is not for this, however, that I take John to task here – who knows the pressures another person must struggle against to fulfill the exacting demands of discipleship? Rather, it is for the distortions of truth in John’s representation of Herbert Schwartz that I take him to task. Whatever he was, Herbert, like any other human being, should not be described with contrary to fact disinformation.
Most sincerely in Christ, John, and with heartfelt thanks for the birthday present which has made it possible to dispel so many lies - your Mother]
I’m not going to be deterred by “this hurts me more [as a mother] than it does you [as my son]”; if I take the Metropolitan – even, on occasion the Pope - to task when I believe this is needful, I can hardly sit by and take it from my own family.
I knew joining FaceBook would prove a mixed blessing! But blessing it has been, because it cut through the evasions that have stood between my younger son and myself – for as long as we have communicated at an adult level.
My response is going to be very brief and to the point. I refer my readers to John’s page: http://blessings-shared-blessings-multiplied.blogspot.com/
Please scroll down to the following, my own comments on this will be in brackets:
Sunday, April 11, 2010 [my birthday]
may the hidden become unhidden
and may my blogging on this topic have the primary purpose of
1) out of love – for Jesus, for those hurt by what took place at Mt. Hope,
2) NOT to win one side of an argument or debate
3) breaking down any myths that Herbert Thomas Schwartz was a Saint
[John, you have already decided, before you present your arguments, which “one side of an argument or debate” which is going to “win”!!! That Herbert Schwartz was a saint is merely a “myth” which needs to be “broken down” that “the hidden become unhidden”.
So I will assist you in this uh – egregiously mis-stated endeavor. I will be quoting from your site]:
A news article from the New York Times – September of 1964 – foreshadows some of what will follow
The headline reads
Communal 'Family' of 27 Faces Ouster
Followed by a article about
"A Roman Catholic lay communal group is facing eviction from it's 20-room house because of the village’s one-family zoning laws.”
the article continues
"The group of 27 persons from four families is led by Dr. Herbert T. Schwartz., who describes his society as "an experiment in religious living." Dr. Schwartz a doctor of philosophy, controls the group's pooled finances, directs his followers’ lives and assumes the responsibility of controlling the families 12 children.“
[These statements appeared in an article in the New York Times which a few years ago had to fire a reporter for not even being physically on site for many of the reports he filed. And it came out at the time that such practices were not, uh …… exactly rare.]
While my family was not one of those four – it was one of the first to join the others when property was found and purchased in Mt. Hope, NY. (about 75 miles north of New York City)
Obviously I was not reading the New York Times in September of 1964 – and being only three – it’s not likely the line about “and assumes the responsibility of controlling the families 12 children” would have jumped out at me. Reading the NYT column today I can almost hear the theme from the movie “Jaws”.
The physical abuse of children that had already taken place in Ridgewood [I don’t see any instances of this cited] was to become more common and brutal at Mt. Hope. All under the guise of “this is what God wants”.
To say that Herbert Thomas Schwartz had a sadistic side to him would to be kind to him (and cruel to those he abused). He had enough intelligence to be manipulative to such an extent that he was able to control not just “the families 12 children” but many other families and people as well – along with several Roman Catholic Priests and Nuns. The control was to gain a strong foothold through an unhealthy obedience. [Factual substantiation, please???]
Occasionally I will come across a blog posted by a fellow survivor of Mt. Hope – and their comments may include “I was at Mt. Hope for 7 years” or “I was at Mt. Hope 12 years”. And I think ‘how did I flub (I can think of a stronger word than “flub” but there is little need to include that word in this blog) up badly enough to have been there for 22?”.
When one is in elementary school and they speak of “brainwashing” in a communist country or elsewhere you tend to think this that almost like classes of some sort they can make you attend. The reality is “brainwashing” is 24/7/365. At Mt. Hope it was the continual misrepresentation of evil as good. Along with forever being instructed to “be obedient” and “offer this up to God”. [Again, what that is verifiably evil was represented as good? Obedience to one’s parents is one of the 10 commandments – and St. Paul notes its importance, being the first commandment that comes with a promise: “Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. ‘Honour thy father and mother’; which is the first commandment with a promise: ‘that it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.’” (Ephesians 6:1-3)]
[Back to my son John:] We were told as children “You are not a victim. You can not be a victim – the only victim is Jesus.” [Jesus asks: "Who among you would say to your servant who has just come in from plowing or tending sheep in the field, 'Come here immediately and take your place at table'? Would he not rather say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat. Put on your apron and wait on me while I eat and drink. You may eat and drink when I am finished'? Is he grateful to that servant because he did what was commanded? So should it be with you. When you have done all you have been commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants; we have but done what we were obliged to do.'" Luke 17:7-10),
The US Conference of Catholic Bishops comments: “These sayings of Jesus, peculiar to Luke, which continue his response to the apostles' request to increase their faith (Luke 17:5-6), remind them that Christian disciples can make no claim on God's graciousness; in fulfilling the exacting demands of discipleship, they are only doing their duty.” http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke17.htm
Herbert was, in fact responding to the request of the Mt. Hope parents who requested Herbert to help us increase our faith – not an easy task in the faithless society in which we lived (and still live) and which reclaimed so many of our children, John being an example. It is not for this, however, that I take John to task here – who knows the pressures another person must struggle against to fulfill the exacting demands of discipleship? Rather, it is for the distortions of truth in John’s representation of Herbert Schwartz that I take him to task. Whatever he was, Herbert, like any other human being, should not be described with contrary to fact disinformation.
Most sincerely in Christ, John, and with heartfelt thanks for the birthday present which has made it possible to dispel so many lies - your Mother]
